Kathrin sits down with her friend Clarice Dibble to share a conversation about learning, mindfulness, grief, creativity, heartbreak, silence, and resilience. Both Kathrin and Clarice share a special bond: each of their respective spouses have suffered during their vocational work of ministry.


It’s a special kind of weight to carry the sorrow and pain that our loved one experiences: we wish to defend them, we want to stand guard before them, we want to call out the injustice our loved one has experienced. And yet at times, we must remain silent and swallow the anger, the hurt, and our own pain.


Regardless of the field in which our loved one’s work, we long to support and encourage them in the work they feel called to do. And when that work suddenly ends, it affects spouses as well.  Whether our loved one experienced a “forced termination”, “constructive discharge”, “constructive dismissal”, “wrongful termination”, “medical separation”, been fired, pensioned off, or dismissed, (oh, there are so many euphemisms!), the pain remains bright and heavy in our midst. Sometimes the terms used to define and describe this experience might become a heavy curtain behind which pain and suffering occur in lonely silence. 


With grace and humor, Clarice helps us peel back the curtain to allow us to see one another – and especially our self – with grace, love, and compassion.



“Forced Termination Leaves Deep Scars on Ministers Spouses”, published December 7, 2017 by Charles Chandler, DMin. https://ministeringtoministers.org/2017/12/forced-termination-leaves-deep-scars-on-ministers-spouses/


“10 Things Only Teacher Spouses Understand” by Michael Peyton; published on WeAreTeachers.Com (https://www.weareteachers.com/teacher-spouses/ ) (last accessed 09/08/2020)


Military One Source: Support for Spouses: https://www.militaryonesource.mil/family-relationships/spouse


Operation We Are Here: Get Connected with Military Spouses, Significant Others (and Veteran Spouses, too!): https://www.operationwearehere.com/GetConnected.html


 “Supporting Your Spouse’s Career”, published September 8, 2020, by Janet Kidd Stewart. Accessed on Physicians Practice: https://www.physicianspractice.com/view/supporting-your-spouses-career (last accessed 09/08/2020)


“When Your Spouse Is on the Front Lines” by Molly Olmstead. Published April 8, 2020 in Slate Magazine.  https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/04/coronavirus-emergency-room-doctors-nurses-spouses-conversation.html


“Covid-19 Psychological Wellness Guide: Partners of Frontline Healthcare Workers” Version 2, published 04/20/20 through Emory School of Medicine, Atlanta Georgia. https://med.emory.edu/departments/psychiatry/_documents/tips.partnershcw.pdf  (last accessed 09/08/2020)


“Free Virtual Support Services for Retail Associates Now Available during Covid-19 Crisis” by Loss Prevention Media , April 29, 2020.  https://losspreventionmedia.com/free-virtual-support-services-for-retail-associates/


“The Importance of Mental Health Resources for Essential Workers – Now and In the Future” by Occupational Health & Safety, published June 5, 2020. https://ohsonline.com/articles/2020/06/05/the-importance-of-mental-health-resources-for-essential-workers-now-and-in-the-future.aspx  (last accessed 09/08/2020)


HelpGuide, a nonprofit mental health and wellness website, provides evidence-based information for a broad spectrum of issues, concerns, and circumstances: https://www.helpguide.org/articles/anxiety/dealing-with-uncertainty.htm


Many thanks to Ministering to Ministers, who produces and supports this podcast.  Please check out the resources available through this fantastic foundation:

            Ministering to Ministers

Ministering to Ministers Resources: Forced Termination

            Ministering to Ministers: The Problem

            Ministering to Ministers Resources: Books

Ministering to Ministers Wellness Retreats


Music for this episode has been legally purchased from AudioJungle. License available upon request